LGBT Rights

[Melvin Olontha]

The rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender people to a peaceful life and their pursuit of happiness now seems to be increasingly under attack even in the parts of Europe that used to be the most tolerant. In Berlin, besides beeing attacked by notorious neo-nazis, attacks come out of the communities of immigrants from countries that openly discriminate LGBT people like Turkey, Russia and the Arab states. An openly anti-gay hip-hop culture has developed that calls for violence against "fags" and "fairies".

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 38,00.html

Is there anybody interested in discussing this here?

[Melvin Olontha]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 71822.html

[Melvin Olontha]

Anti-gay protesters attacked the festival participants as they were leaving the opening ceremony in central Sarajevo on Wednesday evening.

Many demonstrators chanted "Kill the Gays!" and "Allahu Akbar!"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7635197.stm

The Muslim media in Bosnia has opposed the festival as it was being held during the holy month of Ramadan. Anonymous death threats had been made against both the organizers and the media who wrote appreciatively of the festival.

http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/ ... ewsID=2877

So the "muslim media" opposed the festival (read: muslim fundamentalists launched a campaign against people who disagree with them to incite violence against them).
I personally find the fact offensive that they hold their "holy month" to display their hypocrisy and fanaticism masked as piety when others want to celebrate their freedom and have a gay pride parade.

[cem gundogan]

I got used to Melvin's obsessions with muslims and Turkish people Ok, lets look at to the other side of the coin. Little bit case research about crime againist LGBT people and their rights may provide us enough information that it is not only a problem of muslim world or Turkish people, but also of nearly all countries of todays so called "modern & western" world.

I personally attended several Gay Pride Parades in European Union countries, and rescued by the police from the stones throwed by skinheads, or hatefull attacks of some extremist catholic community members. And believe me my friend Melvin, they were "more" than the open minded people at the parade.

So, please act and write responsibly, fairly, and objectively since the issue has an utmost importance and about what we call "human rights".

Here are some links about the cases occured in other countries. Please be aware that internet is full of information, you may find any kind of proof about your any statement, even about the most obsessive and stupid ones... So these links are just for Melvin, and the ones who pretends that they are blind about what is happening in "modern" world.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php? ... R370012006

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset ... 006en.html

http://www.ilga-europe.org/europe/guide ... _in_poland

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=94625

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_a ... GBT_people

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873070.html

http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungariansp ... arade.html

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/may/07051105.html

http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/07/March/0102.htm

and the list goes...

Simply... Crime and violation againist LGBT rights, is a problem of humanity and therefore all countries. We must cooperate in this sense.

All the best,

Cem

[Melvin Olontha]

I got used to Melvin's obsessions with muslims and Turkish people : )

Oh really? Maybe you should elaborate on that a bit more. It otherwise looks more like a deliberate (and pathetic) smear ad hominem to conveniently ignore my arguments:
I did not show any "ethnic" bias, in fact if you would have bothered to read my other posts in this forum (which you should have for making such a general assumption) you would have understood that my point transcends by far your kind of babyish identity politics (a certain ethnic group good/bad etc.) by scrutinizing its premises.

The rest of your comment simply shows that you did not understand the points I made here at all and that you decided to opt for either lazy, stupid or even sinister moral relativism. Did you really mean to say: "as long as there are neofascists in western Europe who throw stones at gay pride parades it is ok to shoot gays on open street in Istanbul"? or "as long as the catholic church campaigns -peacefully btw.- against gay marriage in Italy and Spain we should ignore muslim fundamentalist violence against gays in Bosnia and Turkey as well as laws threatening gays with death in most countries of the OIC?". If so it rather shows that you harbour double standards, not me.

Crime and violation againist LGBT rights, is a problem of humanity and therefore all countries. We must cooperate in this sense.

Indeed, this is so true it is meaningless. (a truism or "tautology") What counts is that some countries are better than others in protecting civil liberties and the reasons for this (Why don't you compare the cited amnesty international reports of Britain and Germany with the one of Turkey?). Those more "citizen-friendly" states are usually the ones where civil society and enlightenment values are stronger after a long and successful struggle with dictatorial, reactionary and totalitarian forces: national-socialists, fascists, religious fanatics and militarists to name a few.
This fight made the "modern&western" world modern indeed, to belittle this and to insinuate that we should ignore the unequal "availability" of Human Rights around the globe (and in Europe) and its cultural and societal causes for the sake of alleged "cooperation" (how and in what can we cooperate ignoring the problems?) as you did means to capitulate before the enemy (I repeat: nationalists, fascists, religious fanatics etc.) by burying our head in the sand. This is as far as I know fortunately not the stand taken by most of the activists in the field whose work you quoted in a rather confused attempt of hiding the argument in a forest of links.

[Michele Turati]

I don't know... but this time I see that Melvin has got his point in a clear and sustainable way.
I don't see any offense in his posts, just some hirony.

Greetz

[Melvin Olontha]

just some hirony.

The hirony is on Cems expense, the last link he provided leads to a story about Ex-mayor of London Livingston who tried to discredit and silence gay activists with the "islamophobia"-smear:
[quote]
Speaking on behalf of the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association, George Broadhead also condemned Mr. Livingstone’s remarks on Peter Tatchell.
“Whilst Mr Livingstone seems only too ready to condemn homophobia from Christian and Jewish sources, he seems highly reluctant to do so when it comes from Islamic sources,â€

[verena schmidt]

As I just wrote in another post, there's the chance to organise a LGBT event in cooperation with HRWG, should you feel the need to discuss the topic seriously.